Based in the United States, the NSF International provides certification of products around the world that meet their standards for consumer safety. Contrary to what some salesmen may tell you, NSF is not a government entity, but an independent, non-profit organization. What does the NSF seal mean, who finds it important, and should home chef's be concerned if their cookware isn't NSF certified?
Who is NSF?
NSF International is often confused with the government organization NSF (National Science Foundation), but the two are not related or affiliated in any way. NSF International is a non-profit company founded to increase public health and safety. Formerly called the National Safety Foundation, NSF International changed their name as the company began collaborating with the World Health Organization (WHO) more and more.
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NSF has developed standards and testing practices for a variety of products and services ranging from bottled water to swimming pool equipment. In many of these cases the standards are simply an application of existing FDA (Food and Drug Administration) requirements. For example, NSF's Food Service Disposable Glove Certification ensures that gloves carrying the seal are made with FDA approved materials, do not leak, and are manufactured in a clean and controlled environment. In this example, the FDA does not have specific standards set for disposable gloves for food service use (they have standards for medical use), but they do have standards for materials for use in food preparation. The NSF certification ensures that a third party has authenticated the product as meeting those standards.
However, many products do not carry the NSF mark. Are these products that have failed NSF certification and are less safe than products that carry the mark? Not necessarily. NSF certification is a voluntary process and NSF International charges a fee to the manufacturer to have the product certified. Many products are manufactured that meet or exceed the NSF safety standards but are not inspected or certified by NSF.
To find out if a product has been NSF certified, go to http://www.nsf.org/Certified/Food/
Does NSF certification matter?
In most cases, if you are not a food service professional, NSF certified products are not an issue. For the home or amateur chef, product performance and quality are of higher importance than the guarantee of product safety since almost all major brands of cookware and kitchen equipment self-regulate and maintain at least the minimum level of safety standards in their choice of materials and manufacturing processes.
For the professional kitchen, NSF certification is very important. For many restaurants, the use of NSF certified products is a necessity to show the company has done their job in protecting their customers by selecting products known and tested to be safe. Supermarkets butcher their meats with NSF certified equipment and fast food chains cook with tool bearing the NSF mark to protect themselves as much as their customers.
Do you need NSF certified kitchen equipment?
In general, it doesn't hurt to have tools bearing the NSF mark, but I wouldn't use it as a deciding factor when purchasing gear for your kitchen. Recently a salesman we saw at Costco pushing Cook's Warehouse's Ameriware Professional cookware and claimed that the Ameriware pans were "more durable and safer because they are government certified for professional kitchens which is why Ameriware can claim their cookware to be Professional". (While saying this, the salesman flipped the pan over and showed the NSF mark etched into the bottom of the aluminum pan.) The salesman then went on to use the certification as one of the reasons why the pan's high price was justifiable as professional cookware is expensive. (That last statement is usually not true. Cookware designed for the professional kitchen is often cheaper than those designed for the home because they are replaced on at regular intervals. For example, Vollrath, a reputable restaurant equipment manufacturer who happens to manufacture Ameriware for Cook's Warehouse, makes a 12 in. non-stick aluminum pan that can be bought from a restaurant supply store for $25 while the comparable Ameriware pan was over $80 with the "show discount". Of course, the Ameriware pan has a space age titanium-ceramic non-stick surface... but no one has given me the opportunity to test a traditional non-stick against the Ameriware non-stick, yet.)
The only time I look specifically for the NSF mark is when purchasing a product (like a plastic cutting board) from a company that I have never heard of. In those cases, I can't "trust" the company (since I know nothing about them), and find some assurance from the NSF certification.
I use fry pans as a test of quality cookware. One reason is I use fry pans 80% of the time.
I have bought Circulon, Faberware, Restaurant Supply pans plus many others.
I Have had this pan 3 months. use it 2 to 3 times a day.
I will say Ameriware is the best fry pan I have ever bought.
I can fry an egg put cheese on it turn it over with cheese on bottom till it melts then turn it over on plate without sticking. Try that with any of the others and you will get a mess.
Before NSF (National Sanitation Foundation), Food Equipment was scrutinized by hundreds of different municipalities and state governments, all with different ideas on what was and was not acceptable for commercial use. The NSF took care of the inconsistency by bringing together all the health departments, government, manufacturers, buyers, interested parties etc. No health department will ever give you grief on NSF Certified equipment if it is being used properly.
The NSF looks at products using standards developed and written by the industry and NSF participants. They look at cookware (as well as all types of products) to be sure the materials are non-toxic, do not leach, color, odor, harmful substances into the foods they will come into contact with, meet design requirements (food safety), and are easily cleanable (sanitation).
This is important to me both for residential use and commercial use, especially with all the products coming from Asia. Large consumer retailers are also looking to the NSF for help (Sam’s, Williams Sonoma, Costco). Many Asian countries have a very lax attitude towards plastics and coatings used in products they sell. They also have a way of disappearing during times of serious inquire. The NSF has a very good web site that displays all the commercial and consumer products they challenge and certify at www.nsf.org.
A scam and fraud!!
Well, I wouldn't rush to label Ameriware as a scam. Sometimes it's difficult to trust what the demonstrators at shows or Costco are saying because they might not understand the details on what makes their products unique (same goes for Cutco salespeople), but that doesn't necessarily mean the product is a scam.
It is probably true that the Ameriware pans do not use Teflon because they probably use a generic PTFE instead (Teflon is a brand). Or, maybe they don't use PTFE at all. We don't know and the Ameriware people haven't called me back.
Also, Teflon has been established as safe by the U.S. government and numerous studies have shown it to pass through the human body with little effect - but some animals may be sensitive to the fumes from a severely overheated pan (birds are particularly sensitive to fumes from overheatd pans - teflon or not, as well as most aerosols, etc.). Nevertheless, I don't recommend cooking on a pan with it's nonstick layer chipping off.
I am curious to find out how well your Ameriware cookware holds up over usage for the next several months (and if the non-stick ability deteriorates over time).
When I buy something at Costco, I don't have to care about whether it's the best buy or the best quality product, at least I don't have to care up front, before making the purchase. I can determine that over the next months (or years). The point is: Costco backs their products like NO OTHER RETAILER in the world! If you dont like it...take it back for a full refund...NO QUESTIONS asked.
The truth is that Ameriware warranties its cookware against defects for 25 years. I know that Costco will take this product back during the period of this warranty. It's simple...at Costco, buy it when you see it, if you like it, because tomorrow it may not be there. If it turns out, you dont like it, or you feel that you have 'sold' by a Costco hawker/shucker....RETURN IT TO COSTCO and remind yourself to grow a backbone before going shopping next time...and then be glad that you made your Ameriware purchase at Costco.
I will update this message board over the next months to critique the Ameriware product....but as you already know, I am not worried that I wont like it...either I have made an excellent purchase of quality cookware...or Costco gets another of my purchases returned to them. DPY
I've been unsuccessful in finding out if any PTFE is used in Ameriware as the company does not return my calls.
re: pots & pans performance
I didn't buy the Ameriware.
Hence, today we researched. We visited the websites the Ameriware demonstrator told us to look at, and then we scoured for other informative Internet postings (which is how I found this bulletin board). I remained positive about the cookware. My husband
(despicable engineer! He turns my trusting nature more cynical day by day as he forces me to weigh things not with my heart, but with my mind) persisted with his search long after I had made up my mind that I would be getting the "fantastic deal" the Ameriware demonstrator had assured me I would be.
Thirty minutes after I hung up from another session of "if I whine long and loudly, eventually he'll give in", my husband called back. "Check out what the Better Business Burea has to say", says he (maddening engineer! Has he quashed another fragile hope— that there's an honest salesman yet to be found, and a cookware set that will stand the test of time?) I am alarmed by the smugness with which he speaks this line.
So, to www.bbb.org I go. I look up Ameriware. I am again impressed... but this time by my seemingly limitless gullibility. The impartial website the Ameriware demonstrator told me to look at (www.onlinecookery.com)? OWNED BY AMERIWARE! The “Cook’s Warehouse” that the demonstrator heralded as “the preferred vendor of Ameriware products”? It’s not a vendor— IT’S AMERIWARE! It’s like General Motors Corporation selling vehicles under different names: Pontiac, Chevrolet, Cadillac. Call it what you like, it’s still from GMC. You can buy a real beauty from a Saturn dealership, but under all the marketing, logos, slogans and incentives, you’re buying GMC.
“But wait, there’s MORE!” I accepted as truth the claim the demonstrator made that “Ameriware has been in business since 1874”. Surely, a company with that much history will be around if my saucepan peters out before the 25-year warranty expires! And of course I can trust that I can easily return my petered-out product to Ameriware for a “cheerful replacement or refund”. Not so, says the Better Business Bureau. First, Ameriware has only been in business since 1978 (a full century LESS than claimed by not only the demonstrator, but Ameriware’s own literature and eye-catching site logo!) Furthermore, according to the Better Business Bureau, Ameriware cookware does indeed peter out, and is not so very cheerfully replaced or refunded.
No research into Ameriware’s claims could be complete without also researching Vollrath, the company that actually manufactures the cookware products Ameriware, “in partnership with Costco”, offers at such a significant savings. Vollrath? An excellent company, according to the Better Business Bureau. The hitch? You’re not buying from Vollrath— you’re buying from Ameriware. Vollrath may very well take excellent care of its customers (i.e., Ameriware, and others), but it’s not Vollrath that’s guaranteeing the product. Vollrath manufactures the cookware to customer specification, but that’s the extent of their involvement with the cookware where you, the buyer, are concerned. But who’s to say, even though Vollrath is a reputable company, if Ameriware’s specifications are “up to snuff” when it comes to the quality and longevity of the product? That’s really an individual determination, and in the end, boils down to the opinion of the consumer.
My opinion is this: I’m glad my husband is a rotten, despicable, maddening… savvy, suspicious, and educated… engineer and consumer. I’m equally glad I didn’t spend $400 for cookware that might not have lived up to my expectations. Am I convinced that Ameriware’s products are garbage? No. They may be just as good as anything else out there. They may even be better. But are they worth the inflated cost? I don’t think so. Additionally, I’m big on integrity. If a company will resort to outright lies and theatrical displays in an attempt to separate me from my hard-earned cash, I’m simply not interested in what they have to peddle, no matter how much I may want it or how good it may be. And in the greater scheme of things, if they stoop so low to lay hold of my dollar, I highly doubt they’ll be upstanding enough to give my dollar back should I be dissatisfied with my product somewhere down the road. Call me stubborn, call me stupid, call me strange – I’d rather buy a $20 pan that I’ll need to replace every five years from an upstanding company than buy a $100 pan that will last me four times as long from a company of ill-repute. And try the math. Either way - $20 a pop five times in twenty years or a single $100 pop in twenty years – you end up in the very same place.
So there’s what I know for what it’s worth. But don’t just take my word for it— if there’s something I relearned today, it’s to not take ANYBODY’S “word for it”. Visit bbb.org for yourself, and like me, become an educated consumer.
I had a bad feeling about how Ameriware seemed to do business and when I called them and they never returned my calls, I kind of just sighed and shook my head. Maybe they have a decent product - it certainly seems to work at Costco, but they just don't seem to be running the kind of business that I want to be handing over that much money to. I plan to try to talk to them at the next Home Show that runs through my region, but who knows if I'll be able to (the demonstrators seem to only know what they are told to say, though).
Many of the claims made by the Ameriware representatives are similar to those made by Danish company Scanpan (US website is a little less informative and is located at http://www.scanpan.com ). I have performed the same "tests" that the Ameriware rep. performed on the Ameriware on my 9-1/4 inch fry pan. It is similarly priced (if not slightly lower priced for that size) at $40 but Scanpan has a much better reputation. So far, I have to say the pan is impressive - it still releases cleanly and amazingly when compared to other nonstick brands (I've only had it since January - I'm planning too keep using it and see how it performs next January and do a write up). I've have other brands which release really well, but after a month or two become so-so non-stick. The Scanpan has continued to clean up well, release marvelously, and has yet to show any indication of a scuff mark. (Since I paid for the pan, I couldn't bring myself to use metal utensils on it all the time - although I have on occassion used a fork and twice used metal tongs because I was in a rush - still no marks). My other non-sticks all have scuff marks and don't release perfectly anymore even though I only use silicone spatulas, plastic tongs, and wood (which is my tool of choice) and never metal.
If you factor in time-value of money, the $20 five times over twenty years is less money than an upfront $100...
Hmmm... I was unable to find any information on www.bbb.org concerning Ameriware. Am I typing in the wrong company name? I tried Ameriware, Cook's Warehouse (brought up a local store in San Francisco), www.onlinecookery.com (in the url field), and couldn't come up with any results...
DBA: Ameri-Warehouse
» Other
Address: 2504 North Ontario Street
Burbank, CA 91504 » Other
Primary Phone: (818) 556-2740 » Other
Primary Fax: (818) 556-2746 » Other
Primary Contact: Howard Teichman, Senior Vice President » Other
E-mail Address:
Website:
Company ID: 13013596
Business Start Date: 1/1/1978
BBB Created Record on: 5/2/1995
Nature of Business:
This company's business is sells cookware at homeshows, state and county fairs, military bases and Costco.
From Heather: Following is the direct link to the information I reviewed.
http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=13013596&hAKAID=1&hAddrID=1
To start from square one, type "Cook's Warehouse" (without the quotes, and no , Inc.). The BBB database returns two results, the first of which is the link to the BBB's information concerning Ameriware/Cook's Warehouse/Ameri-Warehouse.
the BBB database returns a solitary result for "Ameri-Warehouse", and unless one cross-references and digs deeper, it's not readily apparent just who Ameriware is.
My brother is an attorney and when I once was considering employment with a small (two person) company that provided only a P.O. box for the business address, he warned: "If anyone goes to even moderate lengths to obscure their identity or whereabouts and intentionally make themselves difficult to find, it's not someone you want to be involved with".
I have a feeling his words are applicable in this instance, as well.
I have experimented with the egg swished around the frying pan to get a thin layer that can be blown off. That trick works with two of our older teflon pans; however, it does not stick and fry more than a quarter inch above the bottom, so the cheaper pans probably are not hot enough above the bottom. The experiment did not work with my Circulon pot - the thin egg stuck in the narrow grooves and had to be pulled out by hand.
I just read on the scanpan website (http://www.scanpancookware.com/staticpages/sp/teflon) that their products do contain PTFE. I have a 12 inch scanpan frypan that I use frequently, especially to make crepes. It's a wonderful pan for this purpose as it releases well, but it also has some "tooth" to hold the batter in place as I tilt the pan. It also distributes heat beautifully, NO hotspots, AND I have consistently used metal utensils. After at least two years, it still works as well as the day I bought it.
I am so pleased with the perfomance of this pan that I went to the scanpan website with the intention of purchasing several more of their products; that's when I first saw the reference to PTFE. I had been under the impression that these pans were free of the potential toxic effects of PTFE. I believe that I was mislead when I purchased my pan two or three years ago -- I recall being told that the pan was made of a "ceramic/titanium blend as used on the space shuttle to reduce friction" . . .
I'm no engineer, but I was aware of the potential toxic effects of PTFE when I purchased this pan, and I did a reasonable amount of research. I did not contact the company and ask them directly if their product contained PTFE prior to purchasing the pan, but all indications were that it did not.
If you want to purchase nonstick cookware, I can highly recomend the scanpan. I shall continue to use it for situations that really need a nonstick surface, such as making crepes (in case you are wondering, I eat a inordinate amount of crepes because I have a wheat gluten allergy, and have found crepes to be one of the best ways to use odd flours such as barley, rice. or garbonzo. )
But, I shall continue to use my stainless steel and well seasoned cast iron for other purposes, to avoid the potential toxic effects of PTFE, both to me and to the environment. BTW, I'd rather spend $80 on a pan that works well than buy four pans for $20. Less waste, less time shopping - factor that into your cost analysis -- and the product tends to be better in other respects, such as better heat distribution resulting in a lack of hotspots.
Regards all. Hope my two cents helps.
I've been looking for a decent set of pans for the last 5 years and this is the only set that I would have bought on impulse, but my penny-pinching ways stopped me. The next show in my area is Oct 28th and I am finally going to 'rush out' and buy it!
They may be a little overpriced, but in the long run, all the time it takes for me to research and decide on what I would like to use is worth the initial purchase of $100 rather than buying the same pan over and over again.
Another point, if I find something I like and it wears out over time, by the time I get around to replacing it, I can't find it! If it's tried and true, I want the same pan, I'm very picky and will be upset that I can't replace it with the same product!
Anyway, that's my two cents for all that is it worth!
I will let you know in a few months how I like my new pans!
Thx, Tobi
That said, the reason I am on this site posting is because I Googled up Ameriware to contact the company with a complaint. The nonstick surface is no longer non-stick and is now just sticky-but-easy-to-clean surface. I am going to ask them for a partial refund or a refurb. If need be, I will take it back to Costco for a full refund.
Watch FoodTV if the chef is not being sponsored by a company what do they use for cooking? Standard old Stainless Steel!
But the lack of info about the Ameriware products is a bit suspect.
Costco will take defective items back, even without a receipt if you have all the parts and documentation that came with it.
Has anyone cooked with gas at higher temperatures with Ameriware? Or with any other brand of non-stick?
I do a lot of stir frys, which don't work well at medium heat.
Also, the cookware seems pretty functional. The vented lids are a nice touch.
Need to ask yourself this question: If I trust COSTCO enough to pay them $45 or $100 to become a member, why would I doubt them about these pot and pans?
In this case, you are buying from COSTCO, not Ameriware.
As for me, I'm going down to COSTCO tonight and buy a set for my wife. If it turns out she doesn't like them or they don't live up to her expectations for performance or quality, I'll simply return them to COSTCO. That is one of the key benefits of becoming a warehouse club member; 100% satisfaction guarantee.
I saw the Ameriware and asked a lot of construction questions of the seller (Costco). I must admit he did answer almost all of them to my satisfaction. The construction of the pan is made with a titanium/aluminum alloy/mix. The alluminum (I know from selling Cutco cookware) makes a GREAT even conductor, giving even heat to the whole pan. The ceramic was new to me, and thought it a great. I also asked about the rivets. Nickel based alloy which was good. Some companies use cheap steel or brass rivets which expand and contract from heat and cooling, causing them to loosen (see knives with brass rivets). Nickel (again, knew this from Cutco) has a lower expansion rate and is great for the heating and cooling so they won't loosen or make gaps where food can get stuck and cause bacterial buildup.
I've just bought a set as I still had some OLD pans from my mother (I'm 26) and need something decent since I do like to cook. I can't see why these wouldn't and the price WAS reasonable ($399) for a full set of cookware. At least I thought so compared to other high-quality sets I've seen retail. We'll see how it holds up:). If anything I'm keeping the receipt and warranty info, and just use one pan for now. If after a month I don't like, back to Costco it goes.
Is the surface ceramic or PETE? The series of postings is not clear about that. Sure feels like a plastic/Teflon surface.
I found this site because the pan shows signs of wear after the first use! I used a plastic tool to "saute" diced potatos and onions without any oil. The food worked well - though clearly the oil helps develop and spread the flavors.
The pan needed some light scouring to clean it - I was surprised. When I dried it I noticed that a small bubble had come up out of the surface and there are several light scratches. I will probably cart them back to Costco and ask for my money back. Doesn't seem right.[<img src="http://homepage.mac.com/ginolg/.cv/ginolg/Sites/.Public//Ameriware%20Pan%20after%20one%20use.jpg-thumb_194_194.jpg" /img>] :shock:
I see that some of your literature ( www.miraeww.com/Data/notice/MIRAE_04050705.pdf
) shows that Ameriware uses Eclipse on their pans. I can find no other source for the Ameriware pan coatings. Ameriware advertises that their nonstick coating contains both ceramic and titanium and does not have a sticker for or advertise the use of Eclipse.
Does Whitford make the coating for Ameriware pans made by Vollrath? Whitford is the supplier of the nonstick coating used on the Ameriware line of cookware. Does Whitford have a coating containing both ceramic and titanium. Our standard Eclipse does not contain titanium. Ameriware asked us to develop an Eclipse product which included titanium for added durability. Ameriware is the only customer to which we supply this formulation. And if, as shown in the pdf file, Eclipse is used on Ameriware pans, why does Ameriware not name Eclipse as their nonstick coating? Whitford does not require that our customers use our trade marks. Finally, is it true that Eclipse uses PTFE, not from Dupont, so that it is the same substance, but not the same name? PTFE is the nonstick component used in virtually every quality nonstick coating from any supplier of nonstick coatings. "Teflon" is a trade mark of E.I. Dupont for their particular PTFE products. Yes, Eclipse also uses PTFE as the nonstick component.
Your questions are probably triggered by the media comments regarding the safety of nonstick coatings. In fact, the furor is caused by a processing aid (C8 of PFOA) used in the manufacturer of PTFE and not the PTFE itself. Many new test reports have been coming out that show that there is no residual C8 or PFOA in the nonstick of coated cookware. As you can imagine, we have gotten many inquiries on the subject. I am attaching a recent peer reviewed report which is heavy on the science, but the conclusion in the last paragraph has the synopsis concerning nonstick cookware.
Please let me know if we can be of further assistance.
Best regards,
John Badner
So, indeed, Ameriware does have ceramic and titanium in the coating and the coating is provided by Whitford. Since the custom coating contains titanium, technically it is not Eclipse; it is like Eclipse extra. There was also a pdf attachment which I did not attach here since it is 76K in size, but if you want it posted, I will drop it in, assuming that there is a way to insert attachments. John Bader said that it is technical, just up your alley. Or if interested, post your email address and I will send individually.
I looked at the pdf file and it was very technical. It was a step by step on a procedure to extract perfluorooctanoic acid (PFOA) from a pan surface using water, ethanol and methanol at elevated temperatures. Good bedtime reading.
The technical document sent to you by John Badner discussed the process for removing PFOA from the coating. Do we have any evidence or assurance that Ameriware pans were so cleansed? Is the process described standard proceedure?
*******************
It states:
FULL 25-YEAR WARRANTY
All Ameriware Professional with PRO-Series PLUS cookware is fully warranted against defects in material and workmanship for a period of twenty-five years. Your cookware was constructed with the finest quality materials for lasting performance.
This warranty does NOT cover cookware used in food service settings, damage caused by overheating or other abuse, normal wear and tear to the cookware or the non-stick material, or surface imperfections which will not impair it's functional utility. Over time, surface imperfections may appear in the non-stick material. This is considered normal and will not affect the non-stick performance of the cookware.
If a defect in workmanship or materials appears during the warranty period, return the cookware, freight prepaid to: THE VOLLRATH COMPANY, INC., 1236 North 18th Street, Sheboygan, Wisconsin 53082-0611, and it will be replaced without charge.
This warranty gives you specific legal right, and you may also have other rights which vary from state to state.
Thank you for your purchase.
Please retain this card for your record and return the warranty envelope.
***************************
In light of the warranty card, it does appear that the purchaser would be relying on the manufacturer Vollrath, not Ameriware the marketing company, for defect in workmanship or material replacements ( which, as the warranty stated, do NOT include the non-stick surface ).
I'm returning my set to Costco; I have a very good 14-piece set of professional non-stick cookware that I have been happy using for two years, and it looks better than the Ameriware, and I've had no problems with the non-stick surface durability. I was planning on handing down my existing set to my son and his fiancee, but it looks like that won't be happening. CDV
Sorry, I was unable to figure out if I could attach the pdf file. Attempted with failure.
It would appear that PFOA need not be worried about.
I purchased mine in June 2005. I will be returning the set this coming week.
Even though I have been using the plastice utensils, I have scratches in my pots and pans. Yesterday I noticed, that small particles are staring to come loos............all I can say, I'm very thankfull to have purchased the set at Costco
1. When Calphalon says they don't use "Teflon", they are telling the truth. But, what they aren't telling you is their coating is in the CLASS of perfluorochemicals ..PFC !
As mentioned, I searched this entire thread, and not one person has mentioned the term PFC. And this is important! Don't miss this point:
Teflon is a brand of PTFE which is a type of PFC. And the entire list of chemicals in the PFC family is suspect. This includes ALL PTFE formula's (Dupont's formulas: Teflon, Dupont Autograph, Gore's formula, Calphalon's formula, and Scanpan's formula)
Skim this report to get the overview on PFC's...
http://www.ewg.org/reports/pfcworld/index.php
...it will clear up what many in this discussion thread are missing!
Let me try to outline a picture:
CLASS - PFC
TYPE - 'generic' (lab grade) PTFE
TYPE - branded PTFE (Teflon)