This article was actually started early August when I started to round up the knives for the testing. I was hoping to have testing done by the end of September, but because of delays in communication with Yoshikin (the manufacturer of Global knives) and Kyocera (who's ceramic knives public relation e-mail doesn't work), I didn't get the final knife until the middle of October (I just went and bought it).

The tests were performed over two days (two Saturdays) and meticulous notes were kept. After the first day of testing, I really didn't want to continue with the article because I didn't want to deal with continuously washing and drying eleven knives and performing all the comparisons over and over (mainly due to limited counter space). By the end of the first two tests, I already knew which knives were probably going to come out on top - but I needed to finish the testing and documenting to prove it. Tina helped considerably the second day of testing by taking notes for me as I dictated while slicing and chopping. (I also cleared off the dining room table so I would only have to wash all the knives between tests instead of everytime I ran out of space.)

The write up took a lot longer than I expected, and technically I don't think I'm really done. The article took about five days to write, and I still remember more stuff that I want to add - so don't be surprised if the article changes to become a bit more detailed or clearer as time goes on.

Anyway, I hope my readers will find this article informative and interesting.

Excellent article!

I'd love to read another test when you've had a chance to sharpen them on the Nortons. I rarely have a knife come from the factory/maker with a satisfactory edge, especially Tojiros. If you were to use your stones and put the same 8000grit edge on each knife I think you would be able to do a test that exposed the differences in the quality of the steel. Just a thought...

that guy's right, factory sharpening is rarely up to snuff.
The tomato skin test, for example, is based entirely on the sharpness of the knife.
I'm a big Henckels/Wustoff fan, I have a few that I give regular love and maintenance and they could split a hair.

The only knife that is exempt from my criticism is Cutco which is supposed to never need sharpening. (overpriced garbage)

I'm really curious to see how well your knives hold up over time. For instance, the Forschner Victorinox knife (from what I can tell) is not full-tang, and I have had experience with such things coming apart at the handle. I'm also curious if you're going to have to resharpen some of your top-of-the-list knives more often. Can you do some kind of repetetive motion testing?

The cutting tests mostly depend on sharpness and edge geometry, which is why the Japanese[-style] knives tended to perform better than the Western knives. I think if they all had their edge profiles reshaped and edges sharpened so that the edges were exactly the same, they would perform identically.

Then comes the matter of the steel. Japanese knives have harder steel than Western knives do, which increases wear resistance at the expense of brittleness (proportional to the hardness). This means that Japanese knives tend to hold their edges longer than Western knives do, and because the blades are thinner, they cut more easily.

Personally, I would have loved to see a Chinese cleaver (Chan Chi Kee, Suien, Nenox, etc.) included in the mix.

Misono UX-10, stamped blade

http://knifeoutlet.com/revolution.htm

Fuji Cutlery, the manufacturer of Tojiro, sent me an e-mail recommending U.S. buyers to use Korin Japanese Trading Corp. for best convenience.

I was disappointed (to the point of shaking my head in disbelief) that you tested the knives as supplied by the factory. Any knife in regular service is going to lose its factory edge very quickly and wind up with an edge corresponding to the sharpening technique -- so the relevance of testing the factory edge is marginal.

The review would have been much stronger if you had used a well regarded local sharpening service or a consitent, repeatable system (such as the Australian Furi hones) to bring all of the knives to the same edge.

Consistent sharpening does not lead to consistent performance. Blade hardness, composition, bevel geometry, weight, and thickness all play a part in how well a knife cuts.

I highly recommend you re-release this review (which is of marginal utility at this point) after re-conducting it with consistently sharpened blades.

Great <i>idea</i> though. I was really looking forward to reading it.

:huh: I appreciate all the information on kitchen knives. I would like to ask if anyone has experience with the knives offered by A.G. Russell at www.agrussell.com?
They are offering Damascus kitchen knives w/VG-10 core, A.G. Russell kitchen knives w/wood Rucarta handles and KAI kitchen knives.
How do these compare with Henckels, Wusthof or the MAC MTH-80 you recommend?

I'm not a fan of full bolsters, but I've heard good things about A.G. Russell and VG-10 steel.

I have put my set of Forschner Victorinox knives through many years of hard daily use, and they hold up remarkably well. No problems with the handles. They take and keep an edge.

I think it bears noting that the reviewer bought these at a restaurant supply store. Knives used in industry are different from those used by amateur chefs. They are meant to be abused, run through the sterilizing dishwasher, and so on. These knives conspicuously display the NSF logo for the health inspector to see.

I have had fancier and more expensive knives, and I may try some of those reviewed here. But, I can absolutely say that the Forschner Victorinox are great knives at a bargain price.

I disagree with the commenter who thought this rating was somehow faulty because you evaluated the knives using the factory edge. First of all, if he's really that anal to demand your review included custom sharpening of each knife then perhaps he should just spend the time to do his own review.

Second, thanks for the tip on the Mac knife, a brand I have never used but have now added to my Amazon wishlist.

As I was a chef for 18 years, then a computer network design, I feel that I can speak on this topic.
1) The most important part of a knife is the hand that holds it
2) A knife is a very personal ,every one has there likes and dislikes
3) A factory edge should be sufficient for any home user, We only had our knifes sharpened 1 a week, honing is important
4) All knifes tested here are GOOD knifes, this falls into personal taste, grip, hand size, weight and a mired of other factors.

Interesting write up Michael. This should be an ongoing test. I would also review the Cooks Illustrated knife tests to see how they worked testing as well. I would also highly recommend that all the knives be sent off to a reputable sharpener who can put a quality edge on all the knives - at least then all the makers are on the same playing field as far as edge goes. After that, they can all be steeled before use which should last the duration of any further testing. I do think the testing is a bit biased because knives are very personal - the more people you can include the better. Different hand sizes, male/female. I think continued testing and updates are definitely warranted.

Great article, my eyes lit up when I heard you were going to review the Kyocera ceramic knife.
I have "heard" great things but wanted some objective opinions. Anyone care to comment or would Mike be willing to test some cereamics down the road?

Sounds like for now, the MAC will top my wish list.

I have had a set of the original Mac knive since the Mid 70's. They are the best knives I have ever found and they require minimal sharpening on the special ceramic stones they have. I just purchases some new "better" Mac Knives and my husband promptly cut off the fat pad portion of his finger requiring a trip to the emergency room. REALLY Sharp knives - right out of the box.

Excellent review, Michael. I am wondering if you can add more comments about the feel of the different knives. For example, how they balanced (tip-heavy, neutral, handle-heavy), the ergonomics of the handles (size, feel of material, shape), and the curvature and width of the blades as it affect use (for example, the wider more pronounced belly of the German/Swiss brands versus the narrower straighter profile on most of the Japanese blades). While it's true that preference on each of these is a personal matter, some description and comparison here between the different knives will nevertheless be very valuable.

Also, I didn't follow your comment about the "shallow taper" to the Global's blade. Are you referring to the curvature of its blade? However, the MAC's don't look any more curved; in fact, the MTH-80 seems to an almost flat cutting edge (like a santoku).

Though I am a very satisfied owner of CUTCO knives, I am not surprised by the results of your testing. The French Chef knife is the one CUTCO knife in my set that I do not particularly care to use. Unlike most other CUTCO knives, the French Chef does not have a Double-D edge. As a result, it requires regular sharpening.

In a previous comment, someone stated that the CUTCO knife That is not true. CUTCO's forever sharpness guarantee only states that (http://www.cutco.com/jsp/customer/guarantee.jsp)

As an owner of CUTCO knives, I know that my straight-edged knives need regular sharpening. I did not purchase my set because I need a top performing Chef's knife. I purchased my set because the CUTCO steak and carving knives (with Double-D edges) cut well and are a pleasure for me to use.

Good test, one thing though. You said that you'd steeled them all prior to testing, to realign the edge. I hope that doesn't mean you steeled the japanese knives as well? That's rarely a good idea. If you did, I sure hope you used a ceramic steel ...
/Torq

why should one not steel a mac knife? just bout two chef knives from mac, a diamond steel and a japanese water stone for sharpening it. all from a very reputable chef store in NYC. Please tell me what to do if you have correct information please.

On hard Japanese blades I would only use glass smooth or very fine ceramic steels like the ones found here:

http://www.handamerican.com/steel3.html

With coarsely textured steels one has a very high risk of damaging a hard Japanese blade...

Personally I have avoided steels and use my highest grit polishing stone (8000) or flatbed leather hone to bring an edge back to life.

If the diamond steel you bought is very fine and is not harsh on the edge then I think you will be in good shape. I would advise using as little pressure as possible when using the steel. The weight of the knife is more than enough...

I was a big Forschner Victorinox fan for many years. However, I grew tired of sharpening them after every major usage. Several years ago, I found a deal on Wusthof Grand Prix knives overseas and purchased a set. Believe me, the factory edge on these knives was not up to par. Sharpening them made a major difference in their performance immediately. However, I had to get use to the heft of the Grand Prix's verses the Victorinox's light weight. About a year ago, I purchased a Henckels Four Star Multi-edge 8" chef's knife. The blade has a 3" wavy edge section about a third of the way back from the tip. This knife was razor sharp right out of the box and the larger handle was more to my liking. I still have yet to sharpen this knife, I just steel it before each use. The wavy edge really is a great feature in that I can cut with the tip, slice easily with the wavy edge portion and chop with the rear portion. So I would suggest, as others already have, that you have all these knives sharpened and test again. You might also test utilizing others in order to analize handle shape and weight preferences. I am very happy to have found your article.

Could someone comment on ways to find a good knife sharpener? I don't have any friends in around me that have sent anything to a knife sharpener before.

Get some good stones and learn how to do it yourself. It's a very rewarding skill.

http://users.ameritech.net/knives/ward.htm

That should get you started. Of course, if you don't want to do it freehand, or if you want to start off with a guide, there are several good sharpening systems available, the premier being the EdgePro Apex or Pro model.

I find this site has a couple of options for sharpeners and blade care. http://www.eknives.com/knife-sharpeners.html
Solid products and prices, and a few options depending on your need and skill

I very much appreciate this article, it is one of the better knife comparisons that I have come across.

Having said that, I do have a criticsm. It is not a fair comparison to compare knives with a factory edge. Some manufactuorers intentionally leave the knive a little blunt for safety in transportation. You cannot get a like-for-like comparison with a factory edge because you can't know that they all have comparably sharp (or blunt) edges out of the factory.

I own a couple of Whustof knives and the difference between factory edge and newly sharpened is night and day. They are one company that has a policy of keeping the knives rather blunt and I did have cutting issues with them out of the factory.

I don't agree with the authors assertion that people reading this article and buying knives at this price are the sort of people who use the knives with a factory edge. I think most people reading this article are likely to be rather geeky about their knives.

To me, a good knife is also about how it performs over time and how well it does re-sharpen over and over again. Though I do appreciate the difficulty of defining and measuring this attribute. At a minimum I would love to see what would happen if all these knives where taken to a reputable knife sharper and the tests re-done.

The favourite knife was also the only knife to be bevelled. I wonder if that was the difference? Anyone got any thoughts on that?

:unsure: I just visited this site for the first and loved it. However, I was really surprised at how low you rated the Henckel Pro-S. I have been using Henckel Four Star knives for going on seven years now and as a previous comment mentioned I can split hairs with them and I have never done anything other than steel the knives and I do not do that very often. I'll keep my mind open though and check out some of those knives you rated high including the MAC MTH-80.

What most people want to do is complain. They didn't bother to take the time and spend the money to conduct this exhaustive test.

That said, however, the best advice one can give for knife selection is: choose one that feels best in your hand. It is 100% subjective. It does you no benefit to buy a top rated knife that causes blisters.

All knives will get the job done. Over time how you treat the knife is up to you.

If you are testing knives for engineers, you should add the Furi brand to you tests: http://furitechnics.com.au/

The company is run by engineers and the knives are designed by engineers, they consistently rate highly in reviews, I have two and they are the most comfortable and best performing knives I have ever used.

I enjoyed your article, and was amused that the Global came out on top, because that is the brand I am a fan of. It is DEFINITELY an individual thing to choose a knife, because as a left-handed woman, I find some knives waaaay too heavy, or difficult to grip (Shun's handle is made for right-handed people).

As an aside for the Anonymous Reader who bought a diamond steel, go easy on that blade. Diamond steels do more than just realign the blade. They will sharpen/take away matter when you rub the blade against them. Some knives can't be sharpened by a regular steel, so I'm not saying they steered you wrong, it's just a little trickier with a diamond/ceramic steel to accomplish what you need. And you will only ruin any blade if you don't know how to hold it at a proper angle to sharpen/hone it. So get some education, because it definitely is a worthwhile skill to acquire. Happy sharpening!

It should be worth noting that Shun Classic knives are available in left-handed models as well:
Chef's Resource's Left Handed Shun Catalog
Cutlery & More: Shun 8-in. Chef's for Left Handers

Not all stores carry them.

I agree with the individuality issue you mention. I recently picked up a left-handed Shun and love it. ;)

Interesting article.

I've found that food service knives are the best balance between cost and function- the steel is decent and you can get a chef's knife for $40. I've used my Dexter-Russell set for ~5 years now- even though periodically someone has thrown them in the dishwasher or left them in a pan of water overnight. They're a bit hard to find- I go to a resturant supply store.

http://www.dexter-russell.com/Search_details.asp?id=639&group_name=sofgrip.asp

R/

Sharpening knives is an art that can be learned, just as cooking can be learned.

Go to Razor Edge for tools and techniques to learn how to sharpen your knives yourself the correct and safe way.

The guys on here can make an ax sharp enough to shave with. You can make your knives sharp enough to be safe and efficient.

I have used many chefs knives over the years and like the Chef's Choice 6" chefs knife the best. It is very heavy, and takes and keeps an edge very nicely when sharpened with the Chef's Choice sharpener. Just my 2 cents...

Regarding sharpening--I have the sharpening system that is a MUST for all engineers: its from Razor Edge, Box 150, Ely Minnesota, 55731. The originator (presumed owner) barn-stormed with an act of shaving with a double-bitted ax after sharpening with this system. In its simplest form, a hardened jig is clamped (with SET SCREWS!) to the back of the blade at very prescribed locations--this requires a good deal of patience and an engineer's scale (measuring down to 1/64th of an inch) to get right. The clamped jig and blade ride on the stones of your choice--mine are Japanese water in progressing grits from 120 to 8,000. The process is time-consuming, and painstaking--it can take a full football half to sharpen a single knife. I have worked for over three hours on my prize 8" Henckels Zwilling (twins)--reminds me of a commercial--to restore the edge. However, once restored it will last for a year with minor, infrequent steelings. Note Henchels welds a softer metal bolster (hosel) (spelling) to the main blade, so you often get a divot at the back of the blade--this could require serious grinder work to get the blade to hit the sharpening stone correctly. All for now! RAB

:(
Why doesn't anyone here say it as it is? These knives are too bloody expensive!!! How many people would buy a knife that's more than $100?
or even $60? I think $50 is a good limit.

Isn't that why Michael recommended the Forschner as the best value for performance at $29?

lol

all the crazy knifenuts here: http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showforum.php?fid/26/ where $100 for a good knife is considered a bargain and $50 is a steal...

A beautiful knife with a "super steel" core doesn't come cheap...

"SANETU" Cowry X Santoku 165mm http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/SPECIALS.html

"Cowry X is the tough powdered metal alloy specially developed by Daido Steel Company for high performance cutting tools. It contains high carbon (3%) and high Chromium (20%) with 1% Molybdenum and 0.3% Vanadium, and can be heat treated to HRC63 to 67 without brittleness." - JCK

If you think the western style chef's knives reviewed on this site are expensive you probably won't believe these prices:
http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/KDSeries.html

Traditional honyaki knives are even worse... :shock:

Have any of you ever used a Spyderco kitchen knife? I've had a really good experience with their folders, and I was wondering if that expertise carried into the kitchen.

Thanks for the great review! Methodical, complete, transparent. As a software engineer who spends as much time in the home kitchen as at the office keyboard, I appreciate this kind of thing...

However, my only beef (har har) is that only the tests did not include meat, poultry, and fish. In my view, cutting those materials is every bit as important as carrots, scallions, tomatoes, and potatoes. It would have been nice to create a battery of tests whose respective purposes were indexed according to what attributes of the knife are being tested.

Nevertheless, very nicely done!

Peace & Happy Cooking,
Kai

I'm too cheap to be cutting meats... plus I'd have to test the meats in fresh and frozen states...

As someone who just received a MAC TH-80 for Christmas and is considering trading up to an MTH-80, this test and its subsequent discourse were a gas to read. A few thoughts...

Re sharpening. I buy lots of knives, and I've yet to see a company advertise that they ship dull for safety. Therefore, I say let the products as shipped speak for themselves, for three reasons:

1. Consumers shouldn't have to guess if they're getting a product that's ready to use or not. The product should be ready to use, even if that warrants warning stickers.

2. Depending on what "professional" sharpens them and how, you introduce variables of blade geometry and temper tampering into the tests, with what were virgin tools.

3. Sharpening is personal for the consumer, too. A geek like me who knows how to sharpen does it religiously and well. A person who wants a knife to function when they use it, and otherwise stay out of the way, needs to know which knives will bear up under rough treatment. My knives rock, but their factory edges are distant memories, and I consider the sharpening I've done to them over the years to be customization.

As for knives being too expensive, I always point my non-knifehead friends to the Forschner. A real giant killer, that. But for an enthusiast, "too expensive" is like telling a cowboy his Stetson or Resistol is too expensive. How much is too much to pay for a tool that might outlive you, and serve you superbly in the meantime? For something you only have to buy once, in a disposable world?

Subjective handle comfort comments would be great. It's personal, but it can give you an idea of what knife will fatigue large or small hands in particular.

In any case, nice test, and thanks for including knife weights. I've made my trade-up decision. :)

mike ... thank you so much for your willingness to go thru the trouble to test some rather interesting knives.
i own most of the knives tested, and will concur with most of your conclusions. what i find interesting is that the global, the macs, the forschner and the shun are all stamped blades! so much for all the
"experts" and their "expert opinions" that the best knives have to be forged.
modern stamping techniques can produce some very nice knives!
(OK, the cutco is also stamped, but how they command the price they
demand for that junky blade is beyond my imagination.) what others may not know is that the stamped knives tend to be very straight blades. i hang around one of the bay area's biggest knife shops (the perfect edge cutlery in san mateo) and i have examined hundreds of knives (they are very nice to me as i have bought lots of knives from them) and the stamped knives are very very straight compared to the forged knives. the forged knives often have something "unstraight" about them ... they are curved, dog legged, bent, twisted, and even wavy edged ... problems if you need to make long straight cuts, not a problem if all you do is chop and mince, but something to be aware of nonetheless.
in fact, many of my friends, who have bragged about their knives, were surprised when i mentioned many knives being unstraight. sure enough, they sighted down their forged knives and found me to be correct. i would then show them my knives and they are very noticeably straight.
it is very difficult to make long straight cuts with a crooked blade.
the other thing i will conjecture is that even if all the knives were to be sharpened by the same knife sharpener, the thinner the blade, the sharper the knife. (this is why straight edged razors, which are reeeally razor sharp, are always very thin bladed. i cannot understand, knowing physics, how a thick blade can ever approach the sharpness of a thin blade.) so even if the test were to be remade with all the knives sharpened, the results would probably be the same. german blade fans tend to be very loyal to their knives, but i have shown many of them my japanese blades and many have admitted that they have never actually USED a japanese blade and were surprised how much sharper they were compared to the german blades, even after bragging how their knives were "hair splitting sharp". misono, kikuichi, suisin, hirotomo, masamoto, and masahiro all make western styled chef knives that would easily rival and exceed the sharpness of german steel, and at an under $100 price.
actually, my latest buy, a $20 tarhong #1 carbon steel ping knife (chinese veggie cleaver) is proving to be a VERY sharp, VERY easy to handle cook's knife. after cleaning up the edge with just a few swipes of a 2000 grit waterstone, i was able to chop ten pounds of onions without shedding a single tear!! forget those "tips" about how to cut an onion without crying (partially freeze it, slice it under water, breathe thru your mouth and not your nose, breathe thru you nose and not your mouth, etc.) ... if your knife is truly sharp, you can cut/slice/chop an onion and you will not cry.
sorry for the long post, but ... just my thoughts.

If you ever decide to do a knife comparison review again, can you compare some Rada knives with the selection? My girlfriend and I have been buying them as gifts as they are decent quality and exceptionally well priced, but I've often wondered how they <i>really</i> stack up against suitable competition.

Based largely on the recommendations here, I bought a MAC MTH-80 for a friend for Christmas. 2 weeks of regular use, and the tip is bent and a chunk broke out of the blade when cutting through hard cheese. She loved the way the knife cuts, but is hugely disappointed in how quickly the blade is broke down.

Anyone have similar experiences?

MAC Knives has excellent customer service. Please ask your friend to contact MAC Knife, Inc. at (888) 622-5643 to talk directly to them.

My guess is that your friend may have twisted the blade once it was wedged into the cheese. Quality knives should be treated with care - they are finely constructed instruments. I don't recommend that knives be washed in the dishwasher (can bang around and get nicked or lose their tips), be thrown into a sink, or allowed to impact any surface besides vegetables, meat (avoid bones except with a cleaver or thick bladed chef's), and wood or plastic cutting boards. I've seen so many people using a granite board or rapping their knives on jars or bowls and then wondering why their edge is dull or chipped...

I have to say that this review was practically worthless.

What are knives used for? To cut things. If they aren't sharp, they aren't going to cut well. Ergonomics and things such as that are all secondary to the quality of the cutting edge.

All of the knives in this review need to be sharpened and THEN retested. It's the only way to get accurate data. Manufacturers rarely ship new knives sharp. Even if they do, the amount of sharpness varies widely from manufacturer to manufacturer.

I've got a $10 Farberware Pro 8" chef's knife that I sharpened so sharp I could shave with it. It has been an absolute joy to use.

It's the edge that's important. Without it, it's just a butter knife.

One thing to note about kives is that industry has made great changes in the available materials and processes over the past decade or two--even mid-range knives of today will be comparable to high end knives of twenty years ago.

A note about edges. The angle of the grind used to make more of a difference (before the ultra tough high temper stainless) in how long the edge will last. If you slice with the kife (rather than chop--which by the way is the trick for using a katana or other sword) the brittleness of the steel is not a problem.

Note that only a few years ago, no serious kife person would have recommended any stainless knife on the grounds that it wouldn't hold an edge. This is related to the stamped/forged argument too, the real reason that stamped knives used to be inferior (and they were!) was that the manufacturers didn't use the best steels in the stamped knives--they reserved them for their 'top line' forged knives.

Dull knives are dangerous learn proper maintenance for your particular blades.

Knives, being an extension of your hand (I tell my cats that my knives are my claws,) are extremely personal. Find one you are comfortable with, and which you feel in control with. Cutting off bits of yourself is not fun.

If you have no training in using a knife, I recomend that you study the subject & if possible have someone who knows walk you through the various uses. Best not to develop bad habits as they may be dangerous and will probably be less efficient (more tiring.) In general, the weight of the knife should do most of the work. If you have to put a lot of pressure on a knife to make a cut, then there is something wrong.

In the old days, when demonstrators were showing kives (in stores & at fairs and such) they used to put very fine edges on their knives. This makes the tomato test and the paper test very impressive--at the cost of having to rework the edge often.

My 2 cents.

My CUTCO (full) set was purchased in 1966 and I STILL USE IT. Of course, after 4 children and 40 years, it's not all there, but it's still the ONLY KNIVES I WILL EVER USE.
As another here has already mentioned, The Chef's knife is the ONE AND ONLY Cutco knife I don't use, because once you use the Double D blade you never go back. It's funny that it's the one you chose to demonstrate with.
My steak knives were as sharp today as they were years ago, HONEST! until my son tossed my last one. So I just replaced all of the steak knives and look forward to using them for the rest of my life.
I still have the rest of the collection, and use them EVERY DAY.
The Double D is the ONLY way to go, too bad it's NOT ON THE CHEF'S KNIFE. You need to reconsider what you are using. A chef would not use this Cutco knife on a tomato or potato anyway.

I agree that the MAC is the best knife. I have all of the pro sharpening paraphernalia, and use the one the MAC representative recommended: http://www.macknife.com/sharpeners.html


-ddog

I own a full set of Cutco knives, we well as various other chef's knives. I don't understand how the Cutco French Chef managed to perform as poorly as it did in this review. The only thing I can come up with is that cutco decided to dumb down their factory sharpening, perhaps for safety reasons in transportation, and to bring shipping costs down. My French Chef's knife performed amazingly right out of the package. I have performed all of the tests mentioned in this review with the knife and my results were completely different. I fully agree with what others have said in these comments: this review needs to be replaced with one that uses a uniform method of sharpening each individual knife before the testing begins. A freshly sharpened edge vs. whatever the guys at the factory decided to do is indeed, night and day.

Wow interesting, I’m a mechanical engineering student and find this review rather interesting. I myself own a set of wusthof knifes and a few henckels four star . I also have a top end Kyocera ceramic knife too (cost me nearly $350 when I got it). I was surprised the wusthof knifes didn’t perform better. I would have to say would the test not have being better holding the knife stationary and pushing the food onto the knife with a know and calibrated force be more accurate and fairer way of doing this test? As I would say the wusthof knifes have to be at least a third lighter than the henckels ones. My wusthof knife have always served me very well I am continually amazed by there build quality and ability to take an edge. Everything I have tried to cut with them they have preformed perfectly. I find the henckels ones a little too heavy to use comfortably. There thicker blade I feel does not separate food well, I mean don’t get me wrong they are still better than 90% of all other knifes I have used, but not quite the performance of wusthof. The ceramic knife I have if feather light and the edge is what can only be described as amazing. I do however feel its more of a conversation piece than a serious tool as its just not big enough to cut down large joints or vegetables. And the fact I have to send it to Swaziland to get it re-sharpened kind of annoys me. In my experience a lot of the Japanese stainless steel knifes are just too hard (Rockwell 60 ish, compared to 56 area for European) to be able to practically get good sharpening results at home from. In a factory environment the harder steel can take a really homed edge but its much harder to get at home. Also the fact that Japanese knifes tend to be ground to a finer point which means that they probably will cut better out of the box, but good luck getting that 17.5 degree angle back on them again any time soon! I have never used an American knife of similar quality but I will certainly be looking out too being some back to the UK the next time in I’m the states as I have heard good things.
Well good cooking and good engineering…

I recommend learning how to use waterstones. They work well with high Rockwell knives...

My full sharpening progression:

1. Norton 220, 1000, 4000, 8000 Water Stones
[img:c0cccf7cdb]http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/4026/stones19nn.th.jpg[/im...db][img:c0cccf7cdb]http://img470.imageshack.us/img470/6459/stones23wx.th.jpg[/im...db]

2. 12000 Kitayama Super Polishing Water Stone
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3. Handamerican 11"X3" Flatbed Leather Hone w/ 0.5 micron chromium oxide honing paste


An abundance of information on where to buy and how to sharpen properly can be found here:
Kitchen Knife Sharpening



These look funky on the website but they are inexpensive and surprisingly good performers:
http://www.warthers.com/kitchen_knives/index.php?cPath=21

Great article, why did it take me so long to stumble across it?

As a chef I've used most of those knives and I think you're spot-on except for one minor detail: most knives are not shipped fully sharpened. To keep things equal you should have run each knife through a slot sharpener so that each was sharpened to the same angle.

As for Cutco knives, they are excellent for slicing, but not for cutting. Their "double D" edge is a type of serration (as much as they deny it) and only works well when a sawing motion is used. No chef I know uses one. I challenge ANY Cutco user to make fine bruniose (1/16 inch cubes) with their knife. Incidentally, we had an issue on a chef board I frequent where multiple "I love my Cutco" posts were made under different names from the same IP that, when checked, belonged to someone who sold Cutco.

I have a Mercer ($65) that I use for general work (cutting meat, chopping, opening bags) and a Calphalon Katana series($90) that I use for my fine work.

Thanks for a fwell-written review and what must have been a lot of hard work!

A good way to reprise this test might be to enlist the help of a local culinary class.

The main issues / critcisms that I have read seem to be:

1. (Biggest issue for most folks) A sharpened edge vs. a factory edge

2. Ergonomics impressions (will vary with the person)

3. Alternate cutting methods and/or materials

I have Gerber (both the Balance Plus and the older Aluminum handled knives), a low-end Sabatier set, and some of the mid-priced Japanese knives at home. I've also demo'd or borrowed at a friends place to use Henckles, Forscner, Shun, and others at various times. The biggest things to me were 1) Was it Sharp? and 2) Did it feel comfortable in my hand?

If you have a culinary school nearby, maybe you could let them do the work (sharpening and running the various knives through the paces in prep work). Then give them surey forms to fill out to get a more balanced follow-up on the review. Include items like hand size and their own preferred knives to help give a way to balance their responses and you might get some informative input.

The Mac MTH-80 is available at Futurechef.com for $88.00 including shipping.
http://www.futurechef.com/product.asp?item_no=MAC-MTH-80

I wholeheartedly agree with Rob, especially with regard to the factory edge and ergonomics, mainly of the handle, degree curvature of the cutting blade and presence or absence of a bolster. The idea that the factory edge is what should be examined when using a knife for its daily tasks is incorrect. The factory edge is only available for one use. What's important here is what makes the factory edge the end-all? After that the quality of the edge is completely dependant on the skill of the person sharpening the blade and ability of the blade to be sharpened and actually take a new edge by means available to the knife owner, e.g. a stone for rare occasional use, and steels for daily use, not lathes and a series of 3 to 5 waterstones to make a mirror polish, which may look good, but adds little or nothing to the functionality of a knife. Whenever I purchase a new knife, I sharpen it so the angle is exactly what I like (shallow) and the edge shaves hair. Once all knives being tested are sharpened to the same specifications, you can test to dsee how well they cut, hold an edge, and how comfortable they feel in the hands of MOST people, which means that it may be a sharp knife, but feel rotten in your hands.

This is the first article I read on this site - in fact, it's how I found it.

I have a few different knives, mostly less-than-stellar quality as I'm just coming out of "dirt-poor student" mode. However, one that I like is the Peasant Chef's Knife from Lee Valley Tools. Why? To be honest, there's no scientific reasoning, I just like the feel of it. But then, I'm still very much a n00b when it comes to knives.

Oh, and for those who were thinking Shun knives are for rightys only, you should read Alton Brown's website - he specifically mentiones they make left-handled knives, since he's a lefty too.

it seems as though the bone of contention in this extensive test is the relative sharpness of the factory edge.
first, i seem to notice that all the major (and minor) knife companies brag about how sharp their knives are. if they are indeed shipped "dull", that would be totally counter to their bragging, no? why would a company brag about how sharp you can GET their knives, since a good sharpener can get any knife sharp? just an observation.
secondly, if you COULD do the test all over again, but this time with all the knives sharpened by the same person, i feel the results would not change significantly because the top rated knives all had/have a thin blade profile.
the german knives tend to have a thicker profile, ergo, the 22 degree bevel on both sides of the blade. the japanese blades, with more like a 10-15 degree bevel on both sides, will feel sharper due to less of the "wedging" effect of the thinner blades.
third, there may be some perception of addition sharpness with blades that have a rougher or irregular texture on the blades. with blades that are perfectly flat and polished, foods like potatoes tend to stick to the blades via some sort of suction (even try to slice a potato in half and the potato sticks to the blade so hard that you found it hard to pry the potato off the knife?)
as i have previously mentioned, i own most of the knives used in the test and i found most will pale in comparison to my chan chi kee (CCK) no.2 slicer cleaver. this large (25cm X 12.5cm) blade has a 2cm edge that is
thinner than a business card. This knife i sharpen at a 5 degree bevel ...
maybe less. as i have observed, the thinner the blade and the shallower the angle, the sharper a knife blade.

The functionality of my knives is upgraded significantly by using a sharpening method involving a series of 3 to 5 waterstones and resulting in a mirror polish. "Steels and rare occasional stone use" (assuming one JIS 1000 stone or lower) simply does not produce an edge that I find satisfactory. What are your experiences with knives sharpened progressively to JIS 8000 or higher?

Jagstyle: Do you use all those stones everytime you use a knife? HOW do you think the mirror polish does anything to improve the cutting effectiveness of the knife? It is the EDGE of the blade, where the two faces of the blade come together that does the cutting, not the sides of the blade where you see your reflection. I use a heavy chef's knife for chopping and cutting hard textured foods and finer knives for slicing delicate things like raw fish. I use a few strokes on a steel every time I use a knife, which takes about five seconds. The steel I use most comonly is the the 14" regular cut F Dick and occasionally/rarely use the 14" Sapphire cut F Dick Dorkoron, and there isn't that much difference going to the fineness of the Dorkoron. I like long steels because sharpening my 10 and 12" knives is easier than with short steels. My knives never get dull, and my left arm is bald from testing that the knives shave hair. What more do I need a knife to do? One final thing, if you really like a scalpel-like finish, I suggest using a light coating of tripoli on a leather strop. I have done that, and while it was fun and very cool to do, from a cooking/usefulness standpoint, it was a waste of time.

no, the lower grits are only needed for re-beveling when the knife still has the rough factory bevel or requires edge defects to be worked out. I only use the leather hone or one of the fine stones before a day's work.



Only a couple mm's which make up the edge bevel (not the sides) gets polished and the edge is certainly affected in the process. It is not the mirror polish that improves the cutting effectiveness. Rather, it is the alignment of the edge that improves with the use of finer and finer abrasives. The mirror polish is simply the visual side effect of using an extremely fine abrasive.



It sounds like you have a good system that fits your needs and I respect that. Personally, if I was to use a steel I would probably start with a "glass smooth" steel and then use a fine ceramic when necessary (http://www.handamerican.com/products.html). I am obsessed with getting my knives as sharp as I can afford and I find that I get the best performance when the edges are taken to the finest abrasive level possible.

Very nice site. I enjoyed to entry about the knives. I will soon be buying new knives and was planning on purchasing Henckels or Wüsthof because I have read so many reviews about them, but now, I'll consider Global also, because of your review.

Get the Wusthof Classic or Henckels Professional S. DO NOT get the Global unless you like the feel of their handles. I find them too small and their roundness and unnatural taper makes them harder to control than Wusthof or Henckels knives.

I purchased a 10" Global Cook's knife and love it. It is very comfortable and extremely sharp. Please exercise extreme care when washing this knife, especially if you have had a glass of wine, margarita or any alcohol. I was cooking on the grill, had a nice margarita, and started washing my knife with a sponge and hot, soapy water. I thought I was being very careful because the reputation of the sharpness of these knives is well documented. The knife sliced right through the sponge and into my finger, leaving a very deep, wicked cut. I probably should have had stitches, but I was able to steri-strip it and wrap it in a bunch of gauze to stop the bleeding. Bottom line, be very, very careful.

First, I love this site and have tried several recipes and liked them. I am not an engineer, but am married to one. Plus I was a math major--does that count?

My question is: how or where can I get a set of six ceramic edged Henckels knives sharpened? I bought them in Germany between about 1995 and 2000. They never did sell these in the US nor are they any longer sold in Germany.

Any suggestions anyone?

Find out who sharpens the Kyocera ceramic knives and see if they will do the Henckels for you.

Yeah, we'll accept you because you were a math major-that's close enough.

http://drsharpening.com/

Dave at DR Sharpening is well respected, and has experience with ceramic blades.

Dudes and dudettes, thanks for the article. Great Stuff.
Trained Criminal investagive auditor and insurance auditor. Currently, + for many years, financial, strategic and production planer and venture capital investor. I need absolutely repeatable, consistant, return producing results for larges groups of organizations and individuals.

So when your reviews differed from Consumer Reports, and the chat around the stores ( many hate global for poor performance ) I got excited. What is the truth. Many years of using Henckels, Wustof, Shun, Dexter Cleavers, and recently Katana, with many many knives (own 40 or so, 20+ chef's knives.) Truth is in everything said.

My findings indicate that no knife is great out of the box. As a producer myself, it would just be too damb expensive to assure that. That being said, there is a limit to the sharpness range to a given knife, and more importantly, with each indivual knife of a given manufacturer's model! Example, went thru 11 Henckels Pro S 8" Chef's Knives. Every one was different before and after home sharpening. The sharpest, out cutting MAC, Shun, etc was much sharper than the dullest, which would not go thru an onion. Huge difference. Found this to be the case with all German Knives. Japanese were, as there cars, much more consistant, and generally razor sharp when new.

Have found that though Japanense knives seem to be sharper and cut better than most German knives ( a good Henckels will beat them though, and hard to get) new, the get dull quickly. Cannot resharpen them to original edge after just a few uses. My Shuns are duller than President Bush's speeches. My Katana, which when used to I love, also dulled almost immediately. Though they, while being obviously dull, still cut better than most. Explain that one please! The one absolute, Henckels definitely sharper than Wustof. Every time. MAC to new to see how edge holds. Global dislike for bad balance, and they are not sharp! Eveone in the store here complains about that and gets mad after listening to reviews of greatness then buying.

I have settled on Henckels as my primary. Went thru many chef's knives to get 8" Four Star & Pro S, with and without dimples that are sharp. The one exception to the comparisons is Santokus from Henckels are sharper than any Japanese knife out of the box and down the road. I asked Henckels about this, and they replied by design the do not make the other knives sharper, though they can do so easily. Lost my notes why, but I am sure they will respond to inquiry.

Good luck to all

I agree that no knife out of the box is as sharp as someone skilled in sharpening can do at home. If I had pick a favorite, I would say the Wusthof Classic is very slightly better than the Henckels Pro-S because it can be sharpened to an ever so slightly sharper edge and it lasts slightly longer during use. I say this without prejudice, because I own about a dozen of each brand in my collection. Needless to say, both are fantastic.

EVERY knife needs to be sharpened with a steel between uses to keep its scalpel/razor like edge. A knife isn't ready to use until it shaves hair. I have OCD and a fetish for sharp knives. :)

QUESTION: I never got into using a Santoku, nor do I own one. I use wide chef's knives of different sizes. What is it about Santokus that is making them so popular? Is it just a new fad? I think I would miss the point on the chef's knife when I needed to pierce something or cut out an imperfect part of the food I was preparing.

I think the Santoku is a fad, but I do know that its weight makes it easier to use for someone who holds the knife incorrectly. They also tend to be shorter and thus less intimidating for new users; you never see a 10 inch santoku.


Since you're a sharpness junkie, try this excercize my knifeskills instructor gave us: wrap your cutting board in plastic wrap and slice green onions (making sure to get all the way through) without cutting the plastic. Scoring the plastic is OK, but it should hold water when you're done.

I have owned many of the knives tested.

I started using my parents Chicago Cutlery. A decent starter knife but far from very useful.

I then bought myself some Wusthof Classic chef knives. It was worlds apart. I loved using it. It was sharp. I was able to keep it sharp by sharpening as needed.

I then saw Global. I loved the look and ordered some. I loved the weight and sharpness of them. I have small hands so they fit great. I am able to do great things with them. I have 6 Global knives (3" paring, 6" serrated, 5.5" vegetable, 8" chef, 9" bread and 13" flexible carving). I love how they keep the edge and are able to stay razor sharp. I do have a Global sharpening kit.

While at a knife skills class recently, I was able to use a Kyocera ceramic knife. It was much sharper than mine. It felt great to cut with. It was lighter than my Globals which are much lighter than the Wusthofs. I loved how it cut. No bruising or crushing. It was great. Now I just have to arrange to get one.

I am not familiar with this. Is the purpose so you learn to use only the force needed to cut through the food and not strain your hands? What difference does it make if you cut through the plastic in this excercise? I admit I'd probably cut through-my cutting board has cut lines on it, that over the years have become a mosaic from chopping food. Please elaborate.

I am an industry chef and the last new knife I purchased was a Kai (Japan) Shun Santoku. I find it is just the most perfect knife and I use it for 90% of the kitchen work I do. The shape is not a fad. It cuts, slices and chops, turn the blade over and the rounded edge is great for buttering bread! It still has a point and a sharp one at that, which is fine for cutting out bad bits and piercing. Tonight I spatchcocked a chicken (cut the backbone out), sliced potatoes, chopped onions and garlic, and then jointed the chicken when it was cooked. I get my knife professionally sharpened once a year, and I steel it about once a week. Every 4 months it might need a touch up on a waterstone. It is usually shaving sharp. VG10 10 is a great steel and the damascus pattern and gold lettering, make the Kai/Kershaw Shun stand out.

I am a cutco manager, and I was interested in comparing other knives, I thought the article was wonderful, but I was curious if you have tested any other knives such as a serrated against a cutco DD edge?C

It's about an experienced chef showing off *wink*

Seriously, the point is control and sharpness. If your knife is truly sharp you don't need much pressure, so the excercise is to learn how to use just enough and no more.

No, I have not had the opportunity to sit down and test a double-D against a "standard" serrated knife. In truth, I use serrated blade infrequently - mainly as a bread knife or if I'm someone else's home and don't have my knives with me...

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?showtopic=26036&hl=sharpening

if you have the time, read through the essay on egullet... very thorough.... and goes over more of the science/physics than cfe

:D

Why did you only tested the knives on vegetables?

I think you should have tested them on meat and fish too!

I wish I would have found your website before I bought my knives. I bought a set of Henkels; I think I picked up the wrong box. I was trying to avoid the "always sharp" serrated edge type. But, I kept them anyway but went back to get a real knife. I did get another Henkels, much better. But I did notice still some tearing with tomatoes and sashimi. Your site is great. Please keep it going.

I don't understand fixating on the quality of the factory edge becaues that edge is lost after the first few times the knife is used. Most reasonable knives can be sharpened to a razor's edge, (if you think that is what you want, and I don't always agree that it is), if you know how to do it. Better knives hold that edge much longer than their less desirable competition.

Any knife's edge should reflect its intended use. Just as their are many types of teeth on saws, depending on what you intend to cut with them, knife edges should not all be the same.

Most people agree that bread knives are more effective when they are coursely serrated, and a sharp knife with a coursely sharpened blade, (one that leaves thousands of tiny but sharp stridations on it), will cut more tomatoes easily than one with a polished razor edge. Fact is that polished razor edges may be deadly sharp, but they make lousy cooking edges becase they tend to dull much more quickly and be harder to touch up quickly, than their roughter counterparts. Razor edges aren't even desirable for many kitchen jobs because they bite too quickly into things you may not want to cut into, like when you are trimming meat and poltry. Sometimes its nice to be able to follow the contour around obstacles instead of cutting into them.

Its also not fair to compare the cutting pressure of knives with vastly disimilar blade angles and surfaces. A good knife is comfortable to use, requires less effort to use, and stays sharper than a bad one, on the task you use it to do. And for the record I don't push any of my knives through carrots, I chop them very quickly.

I have thourally enjoyed the forum and do have an extensive collection of kitchen knives that were almost all purchased used, and many were old rusty forged carbon steel knives when I bought them for next to nothing. I enjoy restoring them, putting a good edge on them, and using them.

Anamouse@earthlink.net

Nice idea. I wish you'd done a furii because I have one and it seems good, especially for the price. But normal folk don't get the chance to try a whole lot of brands before they buy. If you can stand the thought of doing some more brands it would be quite interesting.

I picked up the Shun Classic Chef's Knife on E-Bay before realizing it was the right-handed version (I'm lefty, and also buy things before I'm sure).
Imagine my shock when I got it and the D-handle fit my left hand perfectly - the flat against my palm, my fingers curving around the right half of the 'D'!
Literally, I picked up the knife and it felt perfect.
Even using a proper knife grip, it felt perfect.
Has anyone else experienced/seen this??

I am considering purchasing either a Shun Alton's 8" chef's knife, or a Chef's Choice Trizor 8". The Shun has a Rockwell rating of 61, and the Trizor says 60, and both are around the same price ($130-$140). I want a really good knife that will last a long time, but don't want to spend more than what either of these are. After looking around, the Shuns were the only ones I could find that were this hard (>60) until I found the Chef's Choice.

Does anyone have any personal experience with either of these knives, or any recommendations?

Does anyone have any opinions on the Kasumi Santoku knife?

I have recently decided to upgrade my knives. I went into a very reputable store in Manhattan and they showed me Wuhstof Le Cordon Bleu along with MAC, Global, and Shun. I liked the feel of the Shuns and Le Cordon Bleus the best. However, I have not found a single rating or comment on the internet about Wuhstof Le Cordon Bleu knives.

Is anyone familiar, other than what the Wuhstof pamphlet says, with the Le Cordon Bleu line of knives? I would really appreciate some help.


Thank you.

The Wusthof Cordon Bleu have the same steel as the other Wusthof knives except that those blades to not have a bolster.

Interesting article... and a complete contrast to my mom's long lived love of Henkles (sp) knives. I'm actually horrified at how poorly they did.

I've been thinking about getting my own knife (I only ever use one and I use it for everything) for a while now. This has given me much to consider.

Now I just have to find sources of the knives in Canada... Google here I come.

I love your site, and the way you have the recipes is exactly how I think...

Once again, awesome, and keep up the site!

Amanda

I was doing a CUTCO search on their rockwell hardness rating and pull in this site and your message. There is a ton of Cutco of all generations being sold on eBay and just worh checking out. For out of production Cutco, there is plenty for sale by many sellers and a good buyers guide on dating your Cutco. Paul

I appreciate the effort and expense the reviewer obviously made to review so many knives.

I have recently been doing some research into knives, originally with the intention of determining what is the "best" knife in the world. What I have found out is that there is no such thing. As so many have said before me, the qualities that make a knife "the best" are variable and very subjective.

For instance, different types of steel have different characteristics. Some are very difficult to sharpen, but hold an edge for a long time and do not rust. Some must be handled with care to prevent rusting, but are super easy to re-sharpen to a razor's edge. Some knives a lightwieght, but are not constructed as durably as heavier knives. Some people may want a cheap knife that won't need sharpening for five years, at which time they will throw it away and buy another, and some people want to pass their beloved forged knife on to their grandchildren... It all depends.

What struck me most about the review was the sincerity of the reviewer, as well as the naivity of his tests. It proved the adage well: sometimes we are ignorant not only of the answers, but of what questions to ask. Being an engineer does not automatically grant expertise in the very complex subject of knife design. For expertise I would look for reviews written by someone who has devoted himself to the complex subject more deeply than our reviewer.

Still, keep up the good work. It's cool to find such a big forum for other knife geeks.

I have had a few knives (Henkles and Wustoff). My stepmother is from Japan and used to be a cooking instructor (now retired). I asked her about knives and her opinion. I was surprised it wasn't Japan is the best and Germans stink attitude.

She has Mac, Hattori, and Wustoff that she uses regularly.

Her comments are these:

European knives are solid and heavy built knives. They are made very well and will last a lifetime. About the knife, they are thicker and the blade edge is usually sharpened to 20-25 degrees.

She mentioned this is fine for standard western cooking. It chops, cuts, and slices well. They are well made.

However, the knife is made for a different purpose - as the Western Foods are prepared different than Japanese food.

Most of her Japanese knives are sharpened only on one side, thinner than the German knives, lighter weight, and hard steel.

Many dishes she prepares require very thin slices, which she could never do with her Wustoff.


She sharpens her own knives and said that she can sharpen them all equally sharp, but the hard Japanese steel knives can take a sharper 10-15 degree edge - because of the harder steel - which can not be done on the softer German knives.

We spoke a long time about it and I tried all her knives.

She stopped me and said. These are her knives and work for her, but may not be right for me. Because she loves them and has become familiar with them, does not mean they are the best - only the best for her.

Her basic rules.

1. Your cooking style. If you are preparing normal western type dishes - then any German type of blade edge will do, but if you plan on preparing some specialty dishes (Japanese in her case) then you may need a one-sided 10-15 degree blade for paper-thin cuts.


2. Your Hands. She mentions the blade becomes and extension of the cook's body. Everyone’s hands are different sizes and finding the right handles/grip is as important as the blade. It is about balance - almost Zen like.

3. The need of your knife. She recommends NOT to purchase a knife block and set (even if they are your favorites - because each knife is different), but instead find 3 knives that meet your needs (they could be from 3 different manufactures).
a. A pairing knife
b. A cutting and slicing knife (chief's knife 7"-10")
c. A chopping knife (cleaver or you could use a heavy santoku).
(side note: she does not own a santoku)
In the future you can get other types of knives (boning, cleaver, etc, but these three will be your go to knives.

4. The quality. Once you find the types of knives you need - the quality needs to be evaluated.

She mentioned the German knives are softer steel. She believes that they are easier to sharpen, but won't hold the edge as long. Since the angle is 20-30% - the softer steel is fine - since the blade edge will be thicker. Her Wustoff is one of the knives she uses often (8" Chef Knife) - pretty old.

Japanese knives are harder steel to hold the thinner edge that is required, but this can make the knife more brittle. Most of her knives are Japanese.

She said - forget the brand name - that is not important. TRY TRY TRY every knife you can. You will know the one that is right for you when you try it. It will sit well in the hand (your hand) and the balance will be perfect for your needs. The knife should ALWAYS be sharpened after you purchase it.

She told me in Japan that where she bought her knives, they would sharpen them right in the shop after purchase on Whetstones - so they don't need to be sharpened when you get them home. They don't do that at Macy's! However, almost every knife you purchase in a store in the US needs be sharpened when you get them home.

I tried all kinds of knives.
I am not a professional, but here is my experience.

Globals - did not fit my hand and I didn't like the feel of the handle. It cut very well.

Furi - felt cheap to me. I didn't really like the plastic handle. I didn't try the full metal handle version. They only had Santokus - which seems like a fairly new gimick that everyone is on the band wagon with.


MAC (originals) - I really liked the angle of the handle to the blade. I really liked the pairing knife.

MAC (Pro) - more western style then the originals - like them better than the Global.

Hattori HD - lightweight and handle fit very well in my hand. I really liked the balance.

Shun - Loved these, but they didn't feel right - really wanted to purchase them - but I was not comfortable. I didn't like the round handle, but that is just me. I love the look.

Henkels - after trying all those Japanese knives these were heavy. I liked the heavy weight (made me feel like I was holding something solid). However, I was getting used to the nimbler Japanese knives.

Wustoff - same as the Hinkels but the balance was better. I noticed with the German knives that I tested that the bolsters had rough/sharp edges which can be smoothed with some grinding. I guess I don't always hold my knife properly - because I didn't like the sharp edges.

Viking - didn't like them at all. The handles were very square, thick blades, and overly heavy.

Cursco (sp?) - seemed cheap, hate the handle, and the serated blade (my stepmom said stay away from these type of blades).

I tried a few others, but nothing really stood out.

There were some others that I want to try, but could not find them available to try.

The results.
I bought the Hattori HD Chief's knife, the MAC (original) pairing knife.

I am still looking for a couple of more knives, but this is my starting point. I will keep my old Henkels Set in the block for a while.

My stepmother gave me some whetstones (400,1000,2000). She had me start with my old Hinkels and I got them very sharp (sharper than when I bought them). I was rather surprised how sharp I got them.

I asked if I got the right ones, she smiled and looked at me. She said "How would I know, they are your knives! Only you would know that answer."

I really love my MAC and Hattori, but I have found that I am still using one of my Henkles since I have sharpened it.

The lesson I learned is that it is very individual for each person and sharpening is very important - as well as care.

She did point out that Quality is very important. Both Japanese and German knives have lower-end steel products that sell at Target and Macy's. Just because it has a Japanese or German brand name on it, doesn't mean it is good - it could be made in China with just their brand name on it. - BUYER BEWARE!

Couple of follow-up. She doesn't recommend any serrated type cooking knives (you can't sharpen them). Also - make sure you are getting the premium line in the Henkles, Wustoff (because both of them sell a cheaper version - that is made of low quality steel). You get what you pay for.


Hope my experience helps.

Can't wait to visit Japan with her and have her show me around.

I've worked as both a chef (in Europe and USA) and now work as a mechanical engineer (>10 yrs experience). I'm surprised to see that Messermeister knives were not mentioned in any posts or the original test. I've been using the Messermeister San Moritz Elite for many years now where they put up to strenuous restaurant usage and busy home use. They have been sharpened (with a diamond stone) over a hundred times and are still in pristine condition. My opinion as a former chef and now engineer, they are the best knives on the market. The Globals are a strong second place, if not tied with Messermeister. On the plus side, Messermeister is a little less expensive than Wustof and Henckels.

Just an FYI regarding sharpness. If you want to engineer the edge on your knives, purchase an Edge Pro sharpening system. Visit www.edgeproinc.com for an education (read: dispelling of myths) about the edge of a knife and how you can control it easily and quickly, and with absolute repeatability. Getting an edge to shave your arm hair isn't a particularly good measure of sharpness; try slicing a sticky note leaf on edge and take off small slivers effortlessly. That is sharp, and the Edge Pro system gets you there quickly. Every once in a while, I buy something that brings disproportionate pleasure, just because it is so well engineered! My Stephenson Warmlite tent is an example, and so is my Edge Pro Inc knife sharpening system. I've been using my Edge Pro for about four years now and still get a goofy smile every time I put a perfect sharp on some knife in need. Plus it's a "behind his house" busines and the owner answers the phone and will answer any sharpening question!

At the risk of beating a dead horse, I offer my experience with the sharpness of new knives. I have Henckel Four Stars that were never as sharp as I wanted them from day one. Even using a series of sharpening devices of the 'draw through' type, both manual and electric, the edge was still not what I thought it should be. Finally I recently purchased a dual grit whetstone and after a short session, even with my untrained touch, I was able to produce an edge which approached what I felt it should be.

knives. i've read about them, i can rap about them, but where the heck can i buy one? ya'll talk about taking one for a test drive and seeing what feels best in my hand, but i can't find a cutlery store to save my life. what are some big-name stores that i might be able to find in the mid-west (michigan)? i've looked on-line/in the yellow pages but nothing is listed. i really appreciate all the reviews, opinions, and often-pedantic discussions about everyone's likes/dislikes, and thanks to forums like this, i have a good basis of knowledge of what to start shopping for. now i just need to know where. thanks for all the help.

Very helpful comments from everyone. Thanks.

Looking to buy a top-notch knife, and I can't help but be drawn to the Shun line-- they're just so sexy. Shuns seem to come out in the middle of most reviews of high-end cutlery, BUT I've noticed that everyone is reviewing the Shun classic line. Good knives, but I bet they're not as good as Shun Pro or the new Shun Pro 2.

Has anyone tried the Shun Pro or the Shun Pro 2 line? How do they compare with MAC, Global, or other top-rated brands?

The Shun Pro lines are traditional Japanese single bevel knives. The Deba and Yanagiba shape are specialized for the Japanese style of butchering and preparing fish and don't work as well as the double bevel western knives for other tasks. However, You may like the Nakiri for cutting thin slices of vegetables.

The "Shun Elite" line exclusive to Sur La Table is a different story. Its a higher end version of the western double bevel Shun Classic line. They feature high hardness powdered steel and contoured handles with spacers and mosaic pins. Very pretty but extremely pricey

A Shun Classic or Elite is a Japanese knife with a German profile. Way too much belly in my opinion. I greatly prefer the profile of a true Japanese Gyuto instead of the bastardized western version.

Check out: http://www.japanesechefsknife.com/ and visit Knifeforums

A few notes:

My knives up till now have been Henckels professional 's'. I'm very happy with them. I use a global sharpener once a year to keep them sharp. After hanging out *a lot* in the kitchen, I find it's also nice to have a knife you can treat badly. My favorite was one I found in a rented apartment. And to be fair, I kept it when I left. Just loved it so much.

When I finally looked at it, it turned out to be a raadvad! Which is owned by fiskars now. Lovely rosewood handle. Wood handles are great.

The trick is to buy knives slowly, say one at a time. Each one has it's own personality. The utility knife by Henkels TWIN fin, is a brilliant knife. Reminds me of a porsche. But every once in a while, you wanna go out in a cinquecento....

Does anyone know which is the best of the Wusthof knives? I was given a gift of the Gourmet series, but I'm wondering if I need to trade up for the Classic. Is this worth the money?

Execellent ariticle.

I find that use my chef's knives less and less. (Coindentally, I also rock my knife less and less and find that the chopping motion is more efficient with a very sharp kinfe.) I cook just about everyday and I tend to use my dimpled mighty Mac santoku 90% of the time. It's the best onion cutting knife that I've ever used (theres hardly any resistance) and I tried many knives. It would be great to see a review on santokus.

Interesting review and I appreciate all the hard work done.

My experience is that the chefs I've worked with who had Henckels all used the 4 Star and Ceramic, none used the Pro-S. I assume that the 5 Star and Pro S are marketing gimmicks and aren't really made any better even though they sound like it. I've been told that the quality of Henckels and Wusthof is nearly the same as they have a similar lineage. Henckels is apparently younger and cheaper but the same quality and what most of the chefs I work with use.

I have about half Japanese knives and half Henckels right now and they are great for different things. My only issue is that with heavy use I've had to replace some of the Japanese knives, but than again they are much cheaper to replace.

Great test Michael. I was struck by the fact that your test seemed to come to rather different conclusions than similar ones conducted by Cook's Illustrated. Would be interesting to see how all these knives would have held up in other tests (e.g., breaking down a chicken).

I recently bought the Tojiro DP you tested. It is a nice knife at a great price, though the handle takes some getting used to (a bit too angular). I already had a Global G-2 and Wusthoff classic. And you're right: nothing really cuts like a sharp Global. I was initially unhappy with the Global handle too, but it can grow on you after some use.

My advice to people who don't live near stores where they can test good knives: buy from places on-line that offer full money-back guarantee. Just don't plan on using the knife when it arrives if you plan on sending it back after handling it. Also, lightly used knives make good presents!

if you are looking to buy knives look at what you need them to do. If you are using them for personal I would recommend the forschner. If you are looking for show work then I would go with the globals or my personal favorite kershaw shun. I absolutely do not recommend ceramic cutlery for anything. They break and are a pain to keep a fine edge on.

I've done a lot of homework before investing in a knife brand for my kitchen. After reading many reviews, many knife web pages, and talking to a chef or two, I whittled the categories down to Global and Wustholf.

I researched both, and I found global to be superior. GLOBAL KNIVES ARE NOT STAMPED, THEY ARE DROP FORGED. The difference between stamped and drop forged is that drop forged knives are heated and pounded until the desired shape is attained. A stamped knife is just stamped, ususally once or twice, and then sharpened.

More about Global:
Global knives are hammered, according to their website, 17 times before they are inspected for shape. Furthermore, Global is relatively new to the cutlery game. Before WWII, Global made Samurai Swords for the Japanese Army, but after WWII, there was a "lack of demand" for Samurai Swords, so they turned to kitchen swords(knives as some of you may call them.)

Personally, I kindof like imagineing my Globals striking down ninjas while I make stir-fry, but maby that's just my inner geek talking.

Very interesting article. I am looking for a range of knives right now. narrowed it pretty much to Global, Shun and Wusthof. I like the look of MAC too but cannot find them in the UK (have mailed MAC and Amazon UK to query). There is also a range of knives here called Tojiro Senkou which look OK but seem pricey for what they are.

So far I like the look of the Globals, their lifetime guarantee, price and the slightly (apparently easier sharpening than some Asian knives). I'm not sure I'll get on with the handles though. Wusthof I like but the German brands do seem to be losing some popolarity. Shun appeals too but again I will need to try the handles to see. Hopefully I can get some Global and Shun on apro and give them a go.

I like the selection of knives you examine, but you've completely missed the point. When you buy a good knife, you want a solid knife that will not bend, rust, or get bacteria in the handle. Also you want it to hold sharpness for longer. This test is not possible over a few days without some standard 'dulling' procedure. The sharpness you can achieve on the blades has little to do with the actual knife as much as the sharpener.

I am going to buy a knife, so ...... after some insane searching, I found something:

1. Henckels are stamped knives, made from ribbons and welded fake bolsters.
(from their manufacturing video.)

2. Wusthof are also stamped knives, also made from ribbons and welded fake bolsters.
(from their manufacturing video, too.)

3. Global have Stamped knives (G, GS series) and Forged knives (GF, GSF series).
But they said they just forged the blade, not full tang (handle is welded).

4. Shun also have Stamped knives and Forged knives (Ken Onion series).

P.S.
I don't know whether both Global and Shun are telling the truth or not, or just like Henckels and Wusthof?
Maybe most of famous brands are fake forged knives now ......

Read the knife article and was shocked at results. Concur with all parties that knives out of the box not sharpest. More importantly, they all differ in resulting sharpness due to normal manufacturing variances that cannot be elminated. Only way to minimize the impact of this is to test many samples of a given knife that you want to buy. We do this always.

That being said, there is a reason that most people like Henckels. The are easily the best in our view. I personally own Henckels, Wustoff, Shun, Katana, Global, Victorinox in matching blades ( I like knives ). Have used most of the others.

Clearly, the Henckels are the strongest, easiest to control and fastest in results. They are, and have been in my past 20 years of using them, by far the sharpest of all blades. I like Wustoff too, but cannot use them as am an athelete and several pros and solider friends use my knives to and Wustoff not as strong. They woble and vibrate in comparsion, transmitting shockwaves up the blade and become less stable to us. For non athletes this may not be a problem. But if you are strong and fast, it most surely will be.

Wustoff though are more stable than most of the others. Love the Shuns, though not as sharp as Henckels. But under pressure they wobble much. Global worse. Even thier forged ones wobble big time, though less so then the stampers.

We have snapped the Macs, though not used newer ones. And they are less elegant in balance than Henckels so we gave up.

Good cutting.

The test with tomatoes is not just to cut it in half.
It should be tested by cutting in slices.

For example,
cut the slices for burger, you should cut the tomatoes in half first, separating top and bottom. Then hold the tomatoes with side tip on the board, and then try to cut a 5mm wide slice.

Now, it sounds easy to cut. But if you a nice 3 inches diameter tomatoes with mostly juice in it, then a dull knife will have some difficulties.

1. Dull knifes will slide on the skin of the tomatoes

2. It will crush the tomatoes and push the juice out since there is the huge opening from the "half cut" for juice to leak. and there is no solid part in a juice tomato to stand any pressure.

3. It all depends on the sharpness of the knife since you can't put any pressure. If apply any pressure, then slice will not be perfectly round.

Given the above information, cutting tomatoes can only test the sharpness of the knife. Any "non-dull" knife can do the trick, so it doesn't really tell the quality of the steel.
In fact, I have been using only bread knife for cutting tomatoes by not really cutting, but tear them. I do get nice round slices though.

Read the test and data with interest since I am currently deciding which chef and santoku knife brand to purchase. Under the data for the Henckels Twin Pro-S the thickness is shown to be 8/128 inch, which is in the neighborhood of 1/16 inch. This seems to be incorrect; perhaps the leading '1' was omitted, which if so, would then have the thickness shown as 18/128 inch, or 9/64 inch, and be close to my estimate of apparent thickness of the same Henckels chef knife at a local store.
Verification of this anomoly was important to me as I plan to purchase perhaps this chef's knife in the near future.
Secondly, since I cannot make a Rockwell C test of this knife [the clerks get kinda wierd when I punch small dimples in their knives :lol: ] would anyone have data on Rc hardness of the forged Henckel and Wusthof chef knives. Have read of difficulties in sharpening these German steel knives and am wondering why?
Thanks for your interest and time for any replies.

I'm wondering why also. I have had Henckels and Wusthofs for 25-30 years and they are easy to sharpen with a steel to the point that they shave hair.

OK, glad to hear another plus for sharpening the Henckels and Wusthofs; had doubted the other comments....maybe stated by those who used only carbon steel :D .
But.....which is it....8/128ths inch ...OR....9/64ths inch on the Henckels.

I found my original notes from when I took the measurements and I wrote down 1/8 (8/128). I remember vaguely that I was surprised and measured again to make sure and then moved on with the measurements. But apparently wrote down some conflicting values. Henckels has since taken back their Pro-S knife... so I'll have to sweet talk someone from Sur La Table or BBB to let me go at a couple samples with my calipers...

I just measured a few of my knives: My wide (blade WIDTH, NOT thickness) chefs 6" Henckels Pro-S and it is just barely 10/64.

The Wusthof wide 8" chefs is 10/64, but their wide 10" and the standard width chefs 12" is a bit more than 21/128.

#1 Note: I'm using a etched stainless steel ruler with 1/64" gradations, reading it with magnifying loupes, not a caliper. The caliper in my office is metric, anyway.

#2 Note: The wide bladed chefs are about 1/4" wider (blade height) than regular chefs, so maybe they are also a hair thicker than regular chefs.

Picked up the 8 inch Pro-S chefs knife previously discussed; the thickness in question on this knife, as measured with dial calipers, is .150 inches, which makes for a sturdy piece of steel. Was about to get the 10 inch but noticed it was significantly thinner and the blade was not in alignment with the handle :shock:. While doing this shopping, I noticed a v-e-r-y nice set of six Japanese damascus steel knives, from a paring size up to a 10-inch chef; they all looked, as my wife also comments, like razor blades with handles. Trying to justify the need for a few of those jewels :lol: .

i have a henckels twin cuisine 8 in chefs and love it

to those who were shocked by the price of a good knife

these knives are of the highest quality i have an 80 year old knife made by f. dick that was my grandfathers

in essence these knives will outlive you and are worth every penny if you take good care of them

Anyone here know where one can pick up a MAC knife in the UK?

Cheers.

Interesting review, but I'd like to point out that the MAC knife of your choice is a santoku knife, not a chef's knife. Santoku knives are getting more popular as it is designed to do slicing and dicing much better than regular chef's knife. I'm not surprised that it has performed much better.

The MTH-80 is a Chef's Knife. MAC does make a comparable santoku which I have used before (but did not like as much as the MTH-80 even with all teh hype surrounding santokus right now) which is their MSK-65.

I have an old 60's K Bar type knife issued by the USMC. It's marked ""Camillus, NY."" on the blade base. You can imagine the use and abuse it's received during it's first four years. I use it infrequently now, but over the years I've used it for everything from butchering game to carving beef roasts, slicing bacon, and cutting up veggies. I haven't sharpened it since the 70's, and I can still shave hair off my arm with it. I'd sure like to know what type of steel it's made from. I wonder if this company makes chef's knives?

As somebody who regularly shaves with straight razors, I assure you that you'd never want to shave with an ax or a kitchen knife, no matter how sharp. Aside from the type of grind, there are other factors that will make the experience highly unpleasant.

How many other manufactors guarantee there knives forever? Cutco will replace, sharpen and polish there products FOREVER. This test fails to point out that there are certain knives for certain jobs. You wouldnt use a steak knive to filet a fish, why would you use a chef knife to cut a tomato? You must feel Cutco's Double D edge slice through meats, tomatos and bread yourself to make any kind of comparison. I have owned and tried Wusthof, Global and Henckels knives. In my experience Cutco outperforms, outlasts, and most importantly has the best ("FOREVER") warranty then any other knife company.

I hand make Carbon steel Kitchen knives . I have had this web site at www.wildfirecutlery.com and know that I make some fine kitchen knives . Any questions after reading my site , let me know . This is a great site , one that seems down to earth and straight forward . Michael Lishinsky

I'm looking for a good bread knife. I broke my favorite of 35 years, and it's no longer in production. I know this is sacrilege, but since it's only one knife price is not a consideration. Any suggestions?

I have been in touch with a very nice guy called Harold Arimoto at MAC in the States and he recommends the following companies:

Hansen's Kitchen Equip
306 Fulham Rd
London
020-7351-6933

Continental Chef Supplies
7-8 Burdon Dr
North West Industrial Estate
Peterlee, County Durham England
0191-518-8073

Tim

Stumbled into this article last night & it's been fun reading through the whole thing. I'm shopping for my own set of knives. So far, i've prepared food with my sister's henckles & my brother's wusthof. I did buy some cheap Kitchen Aids for my parents (mostly for me when I cook there) because they only have serrated ones & I just hate using those. My other brother just bought some Chroma Type 301 knives (literally just got them today). We're testing it out tomorrow, but I don't know if anybody has any experience with them. The handles looked weird at first, but it actually felt really comfortable when I held them.

My question is that if anybody has used them before, how do they compare to the Globals & MAC's (2 brands i'm considering). I haven't found a place near me that would let me test these brands. Thanks in advance!

Ming Tsai has started using a knife on his "Simply Ming" show that looks like something I'd really like to try. I did some research, and discovered that it is called a KenTai 4-in-1 knife, and can be ordered over the internet at < http://www.kentaiknife.com >. Yeah, I know, it's a $20 stainless steel knife, but man, I think the design and shape might be just what I want in a knife (a wide/tall blade that is more curved than a santoku (typically not curved enough for me)... the "soft" point might take some getting used to, but would probably be fine).

Anyway, I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about this knife, particularly whether it will stay sharp and hold a good edge, and also whether it is strong/stiff or flimsy. I could just shell out $20 to find out, but thought I'd check here first. Thanks in advance!!

Very interesting article with a lot of interesting feedback.

I am glad that Mike stated his assumptions up front: "All of the knives were tested out-of-the-box because I made the assumption that most readers will not be hand sharpening their knives."

If it were not for that statement, I would have disregarded the test results as pap since they differ so much from my personal experience. I would never judge a knife by its cutting ability "right out of the box". I am a lifer (over-50) knife junkie who has ALWAYS sharpened all my own knives and those of many friends, too. 25 years ago I got my first set of Razor Edge sharpening guides and the coarse/fine stone set. Unless you sharpen and maintain your knives, you can never really know how good or bad they are. And ultimately "how good they are" depends on what you want to do with them. Nearly everyone who has ever handed me a dull, nicked, edge-abused blade has gotten back a tool that was ready to go to work and cut/slice stuff like they had never cut/sliced before. Sharpening isn't hard - you just have to appreciate the most important principles - keep a constant edge angle (that's where the sharpening guides are critical), progress from the coarsest stone necessary to get the bevel right with the minimum amount of work, then work to the finest stone needed to get the edge that works for you. It's really simple - just requires a little patience and practice, and not a very big investment in the hardware part (guides and stones). The rewards of effortless meat, fish or vegetable slicing, dicing, chopping, carving, filleting, etc more than offset the little bit of effort to get and maintain a really good edge.

For the record, with all my good to great BIG NAME cutlery, I think Cutco makes a really good product. Cutlery snobs may sneer at me and Cutco, but we should judge a product by its performance. Of course I bought it for all the wrong reasons (son of a friend working his way through college), but have been remarkably surprised by the quality and results I can get. Sure, you overpay when you buy Cutco, but the double-D edge is fantastic for some jobs, like making really thin slices of cooked or even raw meat. I learned the hard way how sharp this edge is the first time I was careless and got too close to the meat of my fingertip - live and learn. And I really love my conventionally edged Cutco Santoku - I keep it sharp as a razor, and its cuts effortlessly.

Bottom line - 95% of the kitchen knives most people own are inherently more capable than their owners can appreciate if they are not kept sharp. Even a "modestly" good knife, whether judged by objective test methods, online reviews, or hard practical use, can do what 95% of the users out there (including me) need it to do. When a properly sharpened knife of whatever brand starts to hold you back from efficiently doing what you need the knife to do, only then is it time to start looking for that 2% performance increase that will probably cost you $50 or $100 to get. If you have the dough and need to spend it on a vanity, go ahead - but you really ought to invest the time and a few bucks to learn how to produce a good edge in the first place, then maintain the edge.

This is an excellent review. I agree with some of the comments regarding the limitations of testing the factory edges. I understand that for practical reasons you had to do this. And for a test targeted at a typical home cook, this decision especially makes sense.

When you get into the higher end knives, the market includes more experienced cooks and knife users, who increasingly do their own sharpening and maintenance. For this group, a diferent set of criteria makes sense.

High end knife customers are not interested in out-of-the-box sharpness, but in edge geometry and in most of the following characteristics of the steel:

-Ability to take a very fine edge

-Ability to retain that edge for a long time (especially helpful to professional cooks, who with the best knives can beat on them 8 hours a day for a weak at a time without intermittent maintenance)

-Ease of sharpening. There is a big difference here. Many of the harder knife steels, especially stainless ones, can be a bitch to sharpen. Some are quite easy.

-Toughness. The drawback of some of the thin, hard blades is that they're fragile. Someone in an earlier comment advocated hacking through bone with a Global. This is a good way to completely trash the knife! A stouter, softer-steel European knife, or a specialized heavy duty Japanese one (Deba) is best for the rough stuff.

Finally, I disagree with the commenter who suggested ergonomics are unimportant. If you use a knife a lot, the way it feels in your hand might be at least as important as the edge quality.

It would be nice to see a followup test of some of these knives, based on long-term use, abuse, and sharpening. Such a test would of course be much more subjective, but I suspect it would reveal why knives like the Nenox cost what they do. It might also show that there's a place for the heavy German knives, even if they're not up to the sharpness standards of the Japanese. It would also be interesting to throw one or two carbon steel knives into the mix. There's a reason they have a devout following.

First off I agree with what every other CUTCO user has said. Use the knives for the task they were made for. And CUTCO has what is called the DD edge. Not a serated edge. Which means instead of just what looks like peaks it goes up down then a little valley up down valley. All of which are sharp and provide 3 cutting edges. The points protect these three edges from dulling. As for sharpening like stated before the company guarantees their knives for life. They will sharpen and polish for only shipping costs. Or will send a rep out to sharpen them in your home. As for the handle that is just personal opinion. It was designed to fit any hand and to be safer.

What Cutco defenders seem to have in common is a complete lack of experience with real high end knives. Which explains their befuddlement at the beating Cutco gets from the people like me. It's sad, because the things cost as much as very good knives. In fact there are knives that cost half as much (like some of the Macs and Tojiros in this test) that will spank the Cutcos in every imaginable way.

And by the way, that "double d" edge is by every conventional definition a serrated edge. If an edge has teeth, ridges, grooves, or waves ... any irregularity big enough to see without a magnifying glass ... it's serrated. Some serrated edges work better than others (wavy edged knives like the Mac bread knife work great on crusty bread), but none is suitable for chopping, mincing, dicing, or any of the things that chef's knife gets used for most often. There are generally good at two things: bread crust, and keeping a dull edge semi-functional.

The good news about cutco is that you can get pretty good money for it on ebay. Why not unload it and get a real knife?

I have been very amused reading some of the comments here. I guess we have the traditional Japanese knife makers crying over in Japan with the idiotic comments made here. Shun knifes are HAMMERED?? LOL!

About Shun by Kershaw:
Forged in the samurai sword-making center of Seki City, Japan, Shun features centuries-old craftsmanship updated for the modern Western kitchen.

I think you need to research a little better before you go about and post insane comments that are based upon pure speculation and lack of knowledge. Never ever disrespect the traditions nor values of the Japanese knife makers by posting such insane and profound comments. The only thing HAMMERED here is your head!

Correction on the above post, HAMMERED when I meant STAMPED.

I have been very amused reading some of the comments here. I guess we have the traditional Japanese knife makers crying over in Japan with the idiotic comments made here. Shun knifes are Stamped?? LOL!

About Shun by Kershaw:
Forged in the samurai sword-making center of Seki City, Japan, Shun features centuries-old craftsmanship updated for the modern Western kitchen.

I think you need to research a little better before you go about and post insane comments that are based upon pure speculation and lack of knowledge. Never ever disrespect the traditions nor values of the Japanese knife makers by posting such insane and profound comments. The only thing Stamped here is your head!

Well, in the end the forged/stamped distinction is fairly unimportant. There are good and bad knives made by both methods.

Shun strikes me as good knives, but also as a pretty poor value. The first time I used one, it was the best knife I'd ever used. Then I was introduced to better Japanese knives that in some cases cost half the price of Shun's top line.

Shun is a brand made by Kai, a very large Japanese company. The Shun line appears to be designed for Western home cooks who are transitioning to Japanese knives. They are very heavy for Japanese knives, and are ground at the relatively blunt bevel angles of 16° per side (sharper than most Euro knives, but less so than the more high end brands). The bevel angle can be changed by a skilled sharpener, but the chunky weight can't. I recently bought a Hiromoto guyto for just over half the price of a comparable Shun Elite knife. In terms of sharpness, sharpenability, and edge retention, the Hiromoto spanks the Shun. It is also designed with a better blade shape, in my oppinion ... as are the Tojiros, Macs, Misonos, Blazens, Hattoris, etc.

I own the Wusthof Culinar line and they are said t